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Can anyone tell me what
those beautiful modal harmonies are being used
in Bulgarian tradtiional women's singing groups.
I'm referring to the harmonies used on that classic early
recording of Le Mystere Des Voix Bulgares.
Someone told me that they are using 2nds for their harmonies but I can't tell whether
they are parallel 2nds or not.
Does anyone in the tribe have that knowledge?
I'd be very grateful. I"m doing a lot of acapella singing in my live looping/found sound performances
and I'd love to incorporate some of that style of harmony with some of the Central African Pygmy yodelling
styles (throwing in some Tuvan and Tibetan overtone singing and a little bit of Faux Industrial Beatboxing for good measure :-)
Thanks,
rick walker
aka |()()p.p()()|
those beautiful modal harmonies are being used
in Bulgarian tradtiional women's singing groups.
I'm referring to the harmonies used on that classic early
recording of Le Mystere Des Voix Bulgares.
Someone told me that they are using 2nds for their harmonies but I can't tell whether
they are parallel 2nds or not.
Does anyone in the tribe have that knowledge?
I'd be very grateful. I"m doing a lot of acapella singing in my live looping/found sound performances
and I'd love to incorporate some of that style of harmony with some of the Central African Pygmy yodelling
styles (throwing in some Tuvan and Tibetan overtone singing and a little bit of Faux Industrial Beatboxing for good measure :-)
Thanks,
rick walker
aka |()()p.p()()|
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Re: Bulgarian Women's Folk Harmonies: a queery
Sun, October 15, 2006 - 12:11 PMemail bon singer found on the web site: www.yaelah.com
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Re: Bulgarian Women's Folk Harmonies: a queery
Tue, January 2, 2007 - 7:08 PMnot to be pedantic about it, but the recordings on the mystere records, lovely as they are, are, for the most part not "traditional," they are composed by talented contemporary (beginning in the 1960s) composers, based on traditional melodies. In traditional women's music there is only one or two voices. anything more is late 19th century urban music, or 20th century composed. "traditional" two voiced songs are from only a few regions in bulgaria, and they often do use seconds - one voice sings the melody, the other a drone (sometimes it moves, but usually not much - a tone or two, unless it's from one very unique region) and lots of the tension of the song is produced when the voices are a whole step apart. but to make it even more complicated, much of the "traditional" music uses microtones - so often you'll hear a more than, or less than, a whole step harmony.
If you're referring to any of the mystere-era/style recordings of tunes that are usually called something like "Shope melody" or "pirin melody" those are usually a relatively unarranged medley of tunes from the regions that traditionally have two voiced songs in this strongly dissonant style. (shop and pirin, both in the south west corner of bulgaria). a famous singer of this style is kremena stancheva. if you can find her recordings, they're worth it.
i'm sure that's more than you wanted to know, but if you want to know more, let me know. I studied this music for a long time.
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Re: Bulgarian Women's Folk Harmonies: a queery
Tue, January 2, 2007 - 7:22 PMNo, that was precisely the answer I was looking for, Corinna.
Thanks for your expertise and interesting reply.
In the 'myetere' recordings do you happen to know the number of voices and
and how the harmonies are arranged?
I'm enjoyed a lot of Balkan music but I am not specifically interested in it from a traditional standpoint.
I use a lot of what I call extended vocal techniques in my own acapella concerts.............many from existing tradtions
(like different kinds of mouth percussion, overtone singing, etc.) but also quite a few that I"m trying to innovate myself.
I just happen to love those supsended harmonies (I always have and even from a young age I loved the suspensions
used in orchestration by composers like Ravel and the other French Impressionists).
Also, this year I am beginning to work through a fantastic book I just got on the Arabic MAQAMS (I"m going to be practising all year
on pocket trumpet, Armenian Duduk, Turkish Zurna, Fretless Bass, Oud and Voice).
I know that the Ottoman Turks are responsible for the middleeastern orientation of much of Balkan music.
Do the Bulgarian scales than involve microtones (and I'd assume you mean quarter tones) match the Arabic MAQAM systems to your knowledge?
I have the ability to clone myself because I am a part of the international live looping movement (I actually produce the world's biggest live looping festival every year in Northern California..........www.y2k6loopfest.com) so I want to see if i can start using some of these static
droning 2nds against things I"m singing.
Thanks for your post and your knowledge. Do you perform in this style, by the way? I play a mean Tupan..............<smile> -
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Re: Bulgarian Women's Folk Harmonies: a queery
Tue, January 2, 2007 - 7:53 PMit's hard to generalize about the arranged work, since it includes dozens of different composers writing work over the last 40 or more years...the earlier compositions usually start out with a melody, add a drone-like voice, if that was in the source song, and then will add another one or two voices (for a traditional SATB range) and elaborate on the original tune over a few verses. a well-known composer in this style is philip koutev. Some arrangements have up to 7 parts. later composers often played with modulation, to the point of modulating 6 or 7 times in the middle of a phrase. in terms of the arrangements' depth of harmonies, again it depended on the song and the style of arrangement...if i had to generalize, i'd say one style would be to have the middle voices move in close harmony (half steps, seconds, minor thirds, fourths) with the melody over, and the bases voice often moving the chord progression along, or just really low so as to produce a deep rumbling. an arrangement like this is one called Kalimanku Denku. if you told me a song you like I might know it/have the sheet music and can tell you what's going on in the composition.
the bulgarian "scales" do not have anything like the complexity of the maqams (and good luck with the maqam work - it is tough) and as for the microtones that singers use, I would not say that they are doing so as part of implementing any precise scales, exactly. the microtones are not as precise as quarter tones - they are more like inflections than tones....it's almost like an ornamentational technique - singers will use them for effect, and pitch them differently, and use them in different places, in different verses of the same song - so that the same melody, sung over and over, will be sung slightly differently in each verse of the song.
not surprisingly, i sing this music - these days with a group in brooklyn - yasna voices. we sing composed work and traditional songs, and just came back from working in bulgaria this summer. -
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Re: Bulgarian Women's Folk Harmonies: a queery
Tue, January 2, 2007 - 8:08 PMthanks for the information, corinna.
I see what you mean about inflections as opposed to forumlaic scalar notes being sung.
I uses this kind of micro-tonality (or sliding pitch) orientation a lot in my own singing.
I learned how to do some Congolese yodelling techniques where you are specifically
NOT trying to make a pitch orientation.
Basically, you just let your pitch fall as you are yodelling (so the falsetto AND the fundamental falls
together). It' a beautiful sound.
The Central African pygmies also use techniques that are similar to using a drone not (ala the two voice
Bulgarian style with the constant 2nd drone) when they blow on a closed piece of bambo and intersperse
falsetto singing, rhythmicaly with the blowing. The timbre of the pipe is so close to human voice that it produces
a really wonderful and ethereal feel.
Have you ever tried it? If you find small antique medicine bottles (I find them at a local flea market all the time for
under $5 each) they have rolled over openings that allow you to roll your lower lip over them.
On some bottles I can blow a full octave (and frequently at least a 5th) as I intersperce this technique.
With a little practise you can blow accurate melodies on such a bottle. I call it my fretless flute..................lol.
For now, I"m going to just practise singing some static melody notes (2nds, 4ths, 5ths, etc.) against some of my phrases while using
the same rhythm as my melody. I can just loop the static melodies so I can practise singing against it.
Thanks for the advice. I'll send you something if I get deeper into it. -
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Re: Bulgarian Women's Folk Harmonies: a queery
Tue, January 2, 2007 - 11:53 PMHere's my answer, as an ear learner of this music -you should get some recordings of the actual village version (Kremena Stancheva is great, but a folkloric field recordings collection like 'a harvest, a shephard, a bride' or other cd's of Bulgarian village singing cover all the different styles).
Even if you dont' like listening to those village recordings- it's rough-sounding compared to the orchestrated Mystere records, and the singers are sometimes old women, and the style sounds completely alien to Western ears- you'll get a much better idea of what's going on in there than you can decipher from something like the Mystere-type choirs.
Corinna, did you study with Carol Freeman in NY by chance? That's where I started with this.
Mark -
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Re: Bulgarian Women's Folk Harmonies: a queery
Wed, January 3, 2007 - 12:55 AMYes, Mark,
I've actually transcribed hundreds and hundreds of rhythm sections adaptations of village folk rhythms for many, many years
and have really good transcribing ear but also it is sometimes difficult for me to hear when suspended harmonies are being
sung so it was nice to get all this feedback.
I've listened to several things recently, but it really are those 'modern' interpretive tracks off the original 'Mystere' recordings that I wanted to learn. As simple an answer as I recieved, I think I have a lot of work to try and teach myself how to accompany myself in a live looping
context.
For my whole adult life I have been drawn to what happens when modern or avant garde composers work with tradtional village enthic
musicians...........................lol, it's made me the bane of quite a few scenes, especially in the early days when so many people from California began diving into studying different traditions with a vengeance.
I was talking with a young and very articulate Zambian man last night at our local goth club. He was saying that no matter where he went in the world that he always identified himself by his region and his specific tribe within a larger ethnic group. I was saying that as
a California mutt (with Scottish, Danish, English and Cherokee blood in me) and having grown up with parents who fled a lot of the racism and anti-intellectualism that characterized where they grew up in Texas that I had NO ROOTS whatsoever. As members of a world, however, that allows us to email and video conference with people from the whole planet; one that allowed he and I to even be talking
in a bar 10,000 miles from his home.................we were friendly and able to learn from each other.
In the late 70's through the 90's we recorded so many amazing musicians from all over the world in our recording studios in Santa Cruz............people who were master musicians from other countries (West Africa, South America, India, the MiddleEast, Indonesia, Europe,
etc.) that we were able to learn a lot about the musical tradtions.................yet we didn't have enough time to get really deeply
into each tradition (unless we made concious decisions to give ourselves to them). A lot of people were critical of our efforts to self conciously fuse different traditions but one thing we learned was that the really good musicians that we studied from and recorded and toured with really dug that we were eclecticists that could not only appreciate a good Madagascaran 6/8 rhythm but that we had the chops to fuse it with modern electronics.
Jeeeez, what got that started? I don't know, but I just wanted to say that I"m not trying to master anything profoundly deep about the Bulgarian tradition. Those harmonies just really 'GET' me when I hear them and as I teach myself more and more about how to sing in different modal and scalar forms this is one I wanted to have a go at.
Thanks for being so friendly and providing so much advice.
cheers. Rick -
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Re: Bulgarian Women's Folk Harmonies: a queery
Wed, January 3, 2007 - 10:07 AMi guess i would just counsel you to be clear about the music that you're intending to work with. the mystere-type compositions are that - post koutev, they arestraight up compositions by trained composers. calling these pieces "folk" or "village" is not accurate - it would be like calling bartok', or even chopin, compositions "traditional" because one can hear that the composer drew on rhythmic or tonal patterns from folk music as part of their inspiration. the composers use, as a starting point , melodic structures culled from traditional songs. and they use close harmonies - but that's not unique to bulgarian music (lots of vocal traditions from ex-yugo do too - have you ever heard the music from Krk? find some - it is lots of voices in lots of close dissonant harmonies almost too hard to decipher). Once you've got more than two voices, you've moved into 20th century choral composition "tradition." yes, bulgarian music "likes" seconds, fourths, sevenths and octaves, but you never hear them all at once anywhere but in a composition written sometime after the late 60s.
I don't think you have to do the pure roots thing, and get deep in the tradition, before you can take the sound and do what you want with it, but just don't call stuff roots when it isn't. that does take away its distinction.
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Re: Bulgarian Women's Folk Harmonies: a queery
Wed, January 3, 2007 - 3:19 PMOh, I got the distinction in your very first return post, Corinna.
Having spent my life the way I have musically (and please remember that I've been a professional musician for 30 years; travelled all over the world touring and made hundreds of records
as a professional percussionist/drummer/producer) I learned a long time ago to be respectful and humble with
any tradition that one is trying to understand.
Also, it's good to remember that the beauty of Mystere or Bartok or Bo Diddley popularizing the Cuban tradtional rumba rhythms is that they still contain a seed of the music that points back to the original traditions...........as watered down as it can be (should I dare mention Dead Can Dance) a lot of this music does can make neophytes (such as myself) go out and find it's sources. I certainly did and even ended up playing some Balkan dance classes (luckily, the Tupan is virtuallly identical to the Egyptian Tabla Beledy and has similar rhythmic techniques and rhythm roots).
Thanks for your knowledge and for your caution.
I know how abused a tradtion can be........lol.
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Re: Bulgarian Women's Folk Harmonies: a queery
Wed, January 3, 2007 - 9:41 AMi guess kremena is the giveaway there....yeah, i studied with Carol for a while. and got to spend time with kremena in her village last summer - that was a blast. speaking of field recordings, if you don't have martha forsyth's collection "two girls started to sing" run out and get it. there are some amazing work songs recorded literally in the field, with bugs and birds, and the sounds of threshing. and to make every singer feel better, there's one in particular where they slide down about 2 whole steps as the song progresses - you think it's some crazy scale but it's just what voices tend to do over the course of a song. -
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Re: Bulgarian Women's Folk Harmonies: a queery
Wed, January 3, 2007 - 1:45 PMKremena is amazing (so is the record you mentioned). Studying with her in Bulgaria sounds like a great experience. I met her at EEFC Balkan camp in 99 and followed her around like a dumbstruck groupie (we were able to communicate because we both speak Russian, so it was really fun). Me and another friend from Balkan Camp used her name as a positive exclamation, in place of 'oh my God', for a while that year. Another (really young) guy at camp said that it was the first time he'd gotten a crush on an old lady. -
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Re: Bulgarian Women's Folk Harmonies: a queery
Thu, January 4, 2007 - 9:20 PMif there's some way you can pull together some $$ and a few people, go go go to spend a week or more with kremena in her little village. it was overwhelmingly wonderful. songs just come out of her for hours at a time. we also went to velingrad to sing with martha's singing bakers who we had met in NY in the spring (if you don't have martha's cd of them, write her and get it - amazing pomak song collection). a great trip.
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